Talk:StarCraft: Liberty's Crusade
Three months issue According to Liberty's Crusade, Liberty and Duke were onboard the Norad II for three months, hunting for the Sons of Korhal. At the end of those three months, Duke introduced Liberty to the Sara system. Liberty had never been there before, and did his own research. When they arrived there, they saw the aftermath of the protoss attack. This contradicts Loomings, in which in the last month before the protoss attack Duke was personally present on Chau Sara in the final two missions. Kimera 757 (talk) 17:16, 26 October 2008 (UTC) He could briefly visit Chau Sara during these three months (operation in San Andreas didn't last long). Or, it can be a retcon. XEL 17:44, 26 October 2008 (UTC) Not according to this wiki's policy; we won't know unless Blizzard tells us. Blizzard implied that the novels following 2006 (so Queen and Blades onwards) could be retcons, but were quite unclear about that. (And then QoB got some things right - Zeratul's new eye and warp blade color, for instance, and some things wrong - Zeratul in jail and Zeratul having a "pure magic" warp blade). Kimera 757 (talk) 17:47, 26 October 2008 (UTC) I don't understand why you think Duke couldn't have been on Chau Sara for a short time. There is no Norad II in Loomings and Duke could have been send on the secret mission to Chau Sara. He didn't took part in defeating the SoK there. XEL 16:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC) That would require Duke, a colonel (a high-ranking military official) to leave the Norad II, grab another warp-capable vessel, fly off to Chau Sara at high speed, take part in the two missions, then rush back, all so fast and with so little disruption that Liberty didn't notice. That's not just unlikely, it's becoming speculation. Kimera 757 (talk) 12:23, 14 November 2008 (UTC) These all would got Duke a few days at best. It is unlikely that Liberty interviewed Duke all time. BTW, can quote a statement in LC, impliying Liberty spent three months on Norad II? XEL 16:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC) "In the past three months, Mike had gotten used to it. In the past three months, Mike had got used to a lot of things." That being said however, I don't really see it being that much of a discrepency. Duke was away for about two days and the ship was near the system anyway. It wouldn't be that difficult to sneak out.--Hawki 06:59, 15 November 2008 (UTC) And how do the exact details of the first communication with the Protoss varied from the novel? XEL 14:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC) According to the manual: "The Confederacy launched a clumsy counter attack against the alien fleet as it made its way towards the second Terran planet of Mar Sara. The alien fleet, identifying itself as the Protoss, mysteriously withdrew its forces and spared the colony." There was no such communication in the novel. I presume they did this so Liberty could use the word "protoss" as a weapon. As for Duke vanishing at high speed, that doesn't sound very parsimonious. Kimera 757 (talk) 14:58, 15 November 2008 (UTC) Liberty may not have witnessed this communication. XEL 15:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC) Liberty was right there. If Liberty wanted to know where Duke got the name protoss from, Duke could just say "we got a transmission" but he didn't do that. Kimera 757 (talk) 00:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC) But why he should tell this to some insignificant reporter, who has the problems with the Old Families? XEL 08:58, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Instead, he caused trouble and had to be thrown off the bridge, which could have been fixed with one sentence. In any event, Duke went out of his way to be courteous to Liberty, since this was a big assignment; a cushy one that could have given Liberty forgiveness from the Old Families. And I find it extremely hard to believe that none of Duke's people on the ship wouldn't have told him about any transmissions from the enemey that was right there. That was the time the protoss transmission should have taken place, and it didn't. Hence, it's a contradiction. It's a pretty minor one, all things considered, since it's obvious why the author did so. Kimera 757 (talk) 14:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Maybe somebody told him, I don't remember any indications about otherwise in LC. XEL 16:51, 16 November 2008 (UTC) Siege Tank error Page 155, paragraph 2 from The StarCraft Archive (unsure of page number in the original binding) mentions an Arclite siege tank firing both its weapons at the same time at independent targets: The siege tank's protective screen of Confederate marines was thrown into disarray, although the Arclite they were protecting continued to hammer the rebel's position. The 80-millimeter cannons quickly found the range of the charging rebels, while the main shock cannon brought itself around smartly, firing heavy 120-millimeter shells as it did. This is clearly impossible based on all other available descriptions and images of Arclites. Wulf 06:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Contradictions section Concerning the communication: by the time Liberty arrived at the brige, Duke already knew the aliens are called protoss. That means protoss already identified themselves. The manual only mentions that the alien fleet identifying themselves as the protoss. About three months thing: as Hawki stated in above discussions, it was easy for Duke to sneak out during this time. He didn't tell anyone about the fighting on Chau Sara beacause he was forbidden to: "By edict of Confederate High Command, all matters regarding these xenomorphs are under Class 7 Seal. Do not speak of the existence of the xenomorphs or in any way relay the events surrounding their appearance on Chau Sara. Failure to comply with these orders will result in immediate termination. This conversation never took place. We were never here." XEL 01:28, December 27, 2010 (UTC) In that scene, the protoss didn't even show up until after Liberty had gotten to the bridge. (The Norad II was observing the aftermath of the attack.) Duke knew about the name "protoss" because the Confederacy had been doing experiments on the zerg, and their telepaths had picked up the name from them. In the manual, Tassadar contacts the Confederate force, giving them his name and affiliation. None of that happened in the novel. Easy for Duke to sneak out? Maybe, but it doesn't say so in the novel. It's not parsimonious, and something worth pointing out. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 14:09, December 27, 2010 (UTC) :The only thing manual says about this is "The alien fleet, identifying itself as the Protoss, mysteriously withdrew its forces and spared the colony." It doesn't say when exactly the Protoss identified themselves, it just says that they were identifying themselves as the Protoss. Besides, in the novel Duke obviously had some interaction with the Protoss by the time Liberty arrived at the bridge, since he already knows the aliens are called Protoss. :The novel also says practically nothing about what occured on Norad II during these three months =) so it doesn't have to be said in the novel and Duke and Liberty obviously weren'ti ndirect contact all the time. :So, I suggest we delete the points about Duke fighting on Chau Sara and the first contact with the Protoss from the Contradictions section. XEL The fleet did not identify itself as the protoss in the novel, compared to the quote from the manual: Furthermore: "The Confederacy launched a clumsy counter attack against the alien fleet as it made its way towards the second Terran planet of Mar Sara. The alien fleet, identifying itself as the Protoss, mysteriously withdrew its forces and spared the colony." The protoss did not reappear until the zerg had already achieved victory on Mar Sara in both the novel and the story. There weren't other opportunities for the protoss to introduce themselves. Yes, Duke did know about the protoss, but they didn't say anything about interactions (the action in the Sara System was first contact, literally, as far as the terrans were concerned). Duke learned of the protoss from having ghosts read the minds of zerg. (Experiments with telepaths and zerg had gone way far back.) If Duke had contacted them previously, then that's still contradicting the manual anyway. Duke (and probably his military staff) plus a large contingent of Alpha Squadron troops, including heavy vehicles, went to Chau Sara without Liberty even noticing? That's not in the slightest bit parsimonious, it's speculation. The contradictions stay. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 23:14, December 29, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, the fleet didn't identify itself in Duke's encounter with the protoss, which was observed by Liberty. However, keep in mind that Duke knows it were the protoss whjo incinirated Chau Sara, implying that they wintessed the destruction and the fact that Duke (by time Liberty arrives at the bridge) knows the aliens are called protoss suggests that they identified themselves when Duke first encountered them (and the manual doesn't actually disprove: all it says is that the fleet was identifying itself as the protoss, it doesn't say exactly when they told this to Confederates). XEL 11:12, December 30, 2010 (UTC) No, that's wrong. First of all, the manual is very clear about when the protoss fleet contacted the Confederacy. There has never been in any source any indication that the terrans knew about the protoss before except later in Liberty's Crusade. Second, Arcturus Mengsk goes into detail about what the Confederacy knew of the zerg (and the protoss from the zerg) in later chapters. He specifically pointed out that what the Confederacy knew about the protoss was "filtered" from what they learned from mind-reading the zerg. As a result, there's nothing to indicate that Duke talked to the protoss before. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 20:50, December 30, 2010 (UTC) AFAIK, "identifying thmselves as someone" means that someone identified himself/herself/itself as someone with no clear indications of time. So, there's still a loophole in that. As for Zerg mind-reading, fors of all, there's no way Duke could have read Zerg minds =) And even considering the fact that the Confederacy learned something about the Protoss later through mind-reading the Zerg, there's absoultely no indications that Duke was involved in the Zerg experiments nor that any information from them was known to him (neither in the game or the novel). Overall, my point can still stay, albeit I admit it's fairly specualtive. XEL 22:05, December 30, 2010 (UTC) Mengsk made it clear this was done with ghosts. After all, it was Duke's ghosts who put the psi emitters on Tarsonis (this was said explicitly, and we also knew that before he went to Antiga Prime, Kerrigan was Mengsk's only ghost). In Uprising Duke was sent out to capture Kerrigan after she'd been rescued, and he used a ghost to do so. Also, no evidence of zerg experimentation? It was Alpha Squadron which controlled the Jacobs Installation! Raynor was surprised when he found zerg there. Mengsk was not. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 00:19, December 31, 2010 (UTC) As for the time, the manual is very clear. After Chau Sara got burned, and before the fleet got to Mar Sara, was when the protoss made first contact with the Confederacy. In other words, when Liberty was on the bridge. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 00:19, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :As for Duke leaving Norad II, you are actually mistaken here. Alpha Squadron troops were already present on Chau Sara (those commanded by the Lieutenant), so Duke really didn't have to take troops along with him. And the explanation why Duke doesn't mention his involvement in Precursors or seem to know anything about the Zerg in Liberty's Crusade is blatantly obvious. XEL 11:12, December 30, 2010 (UTC) You're still engaging in a fair bit of speculation here. Look up parsimony. In effect, you're expecting the readers to believe something incredible, when it's quite possibly just a communication error between Blizzard and the authors. (Blizzard didn't keep a firm timeline until sometime after I, Mengsk was written.) PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 20:50, December 30, 2010 (UTC) You're right, this appears to be a small error in communication. But considering the Class 7 Seal there's still an in-universe explanation, albeit speculative. XEL 22:05, December 30, 2010 (UTC) :I edited the points about PRecursors and communication with the protoss to make them as neutral as possible. Just like in the case of Queen of Blades, I sincerely ask you to discuss this edit with me here first, if you'll want to revert it. XEL 11:12, December 30, 2010 (UTC) Done. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 20:50, December 30, 2010 (UTC)